Patient Engagement in Medical Educatioin

Kathy, are there still opportunities to provide input to the CPSO regarding training of MDs?

Hi Kurtis. I believe so. That meeting just took place February 21st. And they were holding more open forums across the province. Your best bet would be to go to the CPSO website.

Thank you, Kathy. I will have a look. I am brand new to PAN, but have half a century of lived experience with health challenges and the health care system. Happily, I have have had a lot of good experiences and it's those as well as the bad experiences that have made me want to improve things for others. Are there people at the CPSO you would recommend as honest people open to constructive change? Thank you.

Welcome to the group Kurtis

I just saw the CPSO report on Medical marijuana based on a consultation they had

http://policyconsult.cpso.on.ca/

They have 2 consultations open at the moment that invite public input

These consultations are now open for feedback:

It's interesting to see what the doctors say about these issues, and it can be illuminating to see what they say. That's were I noted the argument between the GPs and specialists about how they handle referrals.

It's a fair bit of work to read the policy and then comment on it but well worth it I think.

In another area the Canadian Medical Association (CMA) now has a patient advisory panel recently chosen, and they had patients at their last conference, subsidized by the CMA

Annette

Thank you, Annette, will look at these open consultations. Do you know people at the CPSO who are honest and open to feedback. I am happy to participate in any appropriate public processes to improve health care, but are there people at CPSO to whom constructive feedback can be sent?

thanks

Hi Annette,

At the CMA in Winnipeg I was very impressed by Dr. Gigi Osler. I am glad you had the opportunity to tell her about PAN. I feel the CMA needs to know more about PAN and patient advisers. I feel patient advisers need to be someone who lives with a chronic illness and/ or is a frequent user of our health care system. I feel CMA has chosen patient advisers who have a large social media following and have a bloq to prove they are good public speakers but on the down side they had a acute injury 8- 10 years ago, not the same. I like and do a lot of public speaking but do not have a blog to prove my capability. I live with 2 chronic conditions and it is much different than a one time mishap years ago with the health care system. Just my thoughts.

To end my rant, thanks for taking the time to connect with Dr Osler, hopefully she will take time to learn more about PAN.

Virginia

Thanks Annette. Very interesting. That board requirement was new to me. Never mentioned in their brief intro. I tried to post the info about the focus group, but not successful. Optimus was the name of the consulting group that ran the CPSO workshop.

Thank you, Annette, Carolyn, Virginia and Kathy. I am going to look into the Public Appointments Secretariat. I believe patients should have a strong voice in the CPSO, which may pay lip service to client centred care but has a long way to go in terms of ensuring that doctors actually practise this.

Always happy for more feedback.

Kurtis

Hi Virginia, Just a quick reassurance: I am not active on social media. I don't write a blog.

I follow a few people on Twitter to guide my learning about healthcare, but have never posted a tweet myself. No Facebook or Instagram accounts; I don't actually know how they work. My LinkedIn profile is only to document my healthcare participation for others to learn what I can do just in case it might be helpful to them. I certainly don't think having a social media presence is a necessity.

What I have done is introduce myself in person to people I admire. If I'm in a room with Gigi Osler, I muster all the confidence I have, approach her, introduce myself and tell her why something she has said or does is important to me. And then I state what I want to do to have a positive impact and ask for advice. I practice this "elevator pitch" so I'm ready if the opportunity suddenly arrives, even on the sidewalk if I recognize someone.

I try to learn from a wide diversity of people who are effective, then follow-up by brief email to share my ideas and seek further advice, welcome any contact and then act on suggestions for whom else to meet and what else to read. I might follow-up in correspondence to say thank-you and why that suggestion was helpful, plus what else makes me curious.

The internet allows me to read and learn endlessly. For example, my direction often comes from twitter star André Picard @picardonhealth, the open access professional journals and websites like HealthyDebate.ca.

Your point about actual medical experience is important. The reality is many patient advisor roles make it very difficult for a big portion of the patient and caregiver population to participate. I wrote about that here in December in a journal aimed at Canadian healthcare professionals who might consider recruiting patients and caregivers for their work.

So as you say, many "patient advisors" are quite a long distance from their patient experience. I am definitely one of those. My galvanizing experience was over ten years ago suddenly becoming a widow from fragmented care with no accountability. I knew I had capabilities that others might not, so I felt moved to action. Alone in the world, I can devote all my time to this work. For a million reasons, others cannot. It's a rare privilege, so I do it.

To foster integrity in my work, I spend most of my time opening doors for others, enabling voices that would not otherwise be heard to get access. Helping to found PAN is a big move in that direction. The stronger are our networks among members, the better each of us can influence change in healthcare for patients and for Canadian society. That's my motivation and the rewards for my efforts.

So the CMA Patient Advisory panel is new. The CMA undoubtedly wants to show off patient advisors with well-established reputations. That's not where I would look to make a big system impact, so please don't feel marginalized. There is a wealth of opportunities all around us. More healthcare entities are learning they have to open more than as-if "professional" roles for patients to partner with their organizations. The power of our movement is in our diversity. We need "everyone" participating as much as possible, so that means different and more access.

Don't hesitate to develop relationships with people in areas important to you and then ask how you can contribute to shared goals. It's so important to develop these new models of participation, crafted for real people with essential experience and knowledge of health interactions. Go for it! And don't forget to ask PAN members for help and advice along the way. That's what we are here for.

Best wishes, Carolyn

P.S. to Kurtis: learn or ask who has taken these public roles before. Then interview them about their experience, who else is on the panel, and did they feel they made a difference. That will help you decide if you can revolutionize the role for the impact you desire. Go for it and please keep in touch with PAN so we can all learn from you and support you if you need it. Thanks for your passion!

Thank you, Carolyn. I appreciate your encouragement and am glad that you share your experience and insights via PAN. Any thoughts on how to make hospitals more accountable to patients? The Patient Ombudsman can only (according to its legal mandate) check to see that a hospital has a complaints process in place and goes through the motions of following it. The Patient Ombudsman cannot actually require a hospital to resolve patients' concerns with the patient. The CPSO can't require a physician to apologize.

In the end, with health care, whether it's doctors or hospitals, we need to rely on the good will of doctors and administrators to devote themselves to the care of patients. When they fail in this regard, as patients, we are stuck.

Are there PAN groups dealing with this issue?

Thank you

Kurtis

Kurtis, can I suggest you start a new thread for this topic. I have some suggestions for you! But we've strayed from patient roles in medical education. Actually, that's the way I'm trying to change future generations of doctors and other health professionals --while they are still in school. But repost your question in a new topic and I promise to reply.
Carolyn

Carolyn, Thank you for your detailed response. I appreciate the honesty and advice. This is important as I move forward.

I still have lots to learn from you and others who have been doing this for many years,

Thanks

Virginia

You are more than welcome! Medicine is so full of difficult traditional power gradients that it is easy to feel intimidated and paralyzed. I have certainly had my discouraging moments. I hope that PAN connections give us a feeling of legitimacy and possibility. There are many health professionals who truly want our help and want to treat us respectfully. All we have to do is connect up! So follow your best instincts and seek advice from everyone you can. Congratulations on your commitment!

Thank you, Carolyn. I don't know how to create a new discussion topic. I only started using PAN yesterday. I filled in my profile a few days ago, but posting a few comments yesterday and today are the first steps I have taken with PAN. Would be grateful if you could point me in the right direction to learn how to post a new question.

thank you

Hi Kathy. Below is a cut and paste of the Thunder Bay event notice that you sent to me.

Maybe you can describe how this promotion stayed true to its promise to "inform and shape" their future strategic plan? Also who impressed you positively or not so much? That might help Kurtis look into further opportunities to contact or influence the College.

The event invitation does not mention anything about influencing how doctors are trained. A Google search turned up no other such events scheduled. But most important, I don't think it is correct to say that the College approves or enforces physician training.

I looked at the Ontario College's website to learn about training in their current strategic plan but see only remedial education for disciplined docs and a limited role in continuing professional development (CPD) that is referred to as "proactive". Nothing about training doctors. I find they have an Education Committee, with membership in the dropdown tab here. And here you can see it meets only 2 full days and 3 half days a year.

Accreditation is the job of the Association of Faculties of Medicine of Canada (AFMC) that is made up of all the Deans of medical schools across the country. The Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Canada has the principal role in designing medical education (including CPD) with the CanMEDS framework and administering residency exams to qualify for each specialty including family practice, before a doctor can be licensed by the provincial Colleges like the CPSO.

So I'm a bit mystified by your experience at the meeting in Thunder Bay. Please tell us more that doesn't violate the confidentiality mentioned below. I'd love to learn that the Ontario College is doing something that other provinces should learn about and copy!

Best regards, Carolyn

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Have your say in the College of Physicians' future direction! Join us for a focus group discussion on February 21, 2019 in Thunder Bay!

About this Event

In early December, thousands of physicians completed our strategic planning survey and many expressed interest in participating in open forums to further inform the CPSO’s work. The discussion is important and will help inform and shape the College’s strategic direction in 2019 and beyond!

The CPSO has engaged the consulting firm OPTIMUS|SBR to facilitate the focus group and the details of the evening are as follows:

Date: Thursday February 21, 2019

Time: 5:45 PM – 8:00 PM (Dinner will be available at 5:45 PM, the session will begin at 6:00 PM)

Location: ICP Main, Room 2178, Main Level

Thunder Bay Regional Health Sciences Centre

980 Oliver Road, Thunder Bay

Dr. Peeter Poldre (President of CPSO) and Dr. Nancy Whitmore (Registrar and CEO) will attend the first part of the evening with a short update on CPSO activities and an open discussion. To ensure the best quality feedback where you can give your honest thoughts and opinions, the second part of the evening will be a confidential strategic planning session facilitated by consulting firm OPTIMUS|SBR.

Sure! Under the large heading above, "Discussion Topics", click on the small text "Return to About Public Involvement in Healthcare". On the new page, you will see on the upper right "+ Create New Topic".

Now you are rolling!

To learn more about using Groupsite [yes it is a bit clunky but cheap!] go to the home page by signing in or clicking on the PAN logo and on the right hand column, see "How to Use Groupsite".

Best of luck! Thanks for asking. See you on a new topic thread soon!

Hi

This is similar to the focus group I attended, and I was dismayed that those running it did not stress the public participation aspect. By responding to a question about Board or Council representation of the public the person who answered (Peter Poldre I think) made it sound like an exclusive process where people were 'appointed' more in the sense of being plucked from the crowd rather then applying and being chosen.

Most of the public members I have seen are well qualified people in a variety of ways, but not patients except in the sense that we sometimes hear when people say "We're all patients"

Annette

Thank you, Carolyn,

I will give it a go.

Kurtis

Dear Carolyn,

Have now posted a new question for discussion relating to whether and how doctors and hospitals are accountable for their behaviour to patients.

Hope you will provide feedback or insights.

Thanks.

Kurtis

I met Dr Gigi Osler at a conference. She's the President of the country-wide Canadian Medical association now, and she knows about PAN. I gave her our slide deck. She sounded very interested in having patients involved.

As for the CPSO there are ways to provide feedback on the consultations when you get into them.

I also attended a focus group for CPSO. One thing people are not so aware of is that the Regulatory Colleges of the health professionals are required to have patients on their Boards and Councils. In Ontario you join through the Public Appointments Secretariat. Then you have a real influence.

In my opinion public members are very seldom patients - it would do them good to have more of us who are patients and caregivers. There's usually a per diem for this and the educational opportunities are terrific.

Annette

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About this Event

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